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    • the application for research using the O-Shot (R) procure to treat Lichen Sclerosus can be found at LichenSclerosusTreatment.com

      But, anyone who does the O-Shot (R) procedure (listed here) would know how to treat you. It’s just that the $94,000 budget for the procedure to provide free treatment for the study would not apply if you saw one of the physicians in his/her office.

      I hope you find healing.

  1. I’ve had vaginal rejuvenation done 8 yrs ago. I have had issues with getting aroused ever since. I have found out that since I was hormone lacking, that I didn’t heal as well. I have been on hormones for the last 7 yrs, and have come a long way. I am wondering if I could be helped by this procedure? Am I a good candidate? Also, I should mention, I have recently noticed periodically I leak a couple drops when I sneeze. As it just started, wouldn’t this be a good time for the shot?
    Thanks

    • Hello Theresa,

      Unfortunately, some of the “rejuvenation” procedures do use surgery and lasers.

      Now, take away the pretty words and say that more plainly…some of the rejuvenation procedures use cutting and burning…sounds scarier that way. And, they can (NOT “always” or “usually” but honestly “can”) leave you with pain or loss of sensation.

      On the other hand, surgery can be a “natural” healer…the extra tissue or the abnormal tissue removed.
      The O-Shot (R) providers are NOT anti-surgery…sometimes it’s the only way to find healing.

      On the other hand, the O-Shot (R) procedure is NOT surgery or lasers but instead uses the same material (blood-derived growth factors from the woman’s own blood) that the woman would make on her own to heal after surgery or lasers. Hopefully, when doctors do episiotomies or meshes or slings in the future, they will eventually incorporate the O-Shot (R) procedure as part of what they do.

      You are an excellent candidate for the O-Shot (R) since it could help restore sensation and still leave you with the benefits of the surgery you had (I’m guessing there was some tightening done?)

      We’ve seen women find complete relief of their pain or loss of sensation after having episiotomies, slings, and meshes, and after vaginal “rejuvenation surgery”.

      Your chances are better if you get hormones at optimal levels. Also, there is NO perfect medicine or procedure, including the O-Shot (R) but I think the O-Shot (R) offers you a high possibility of success…and also the best possibility of success.

      Have you seen this research done by the inventor of the procedure (Charles Runels, MD) and three of his colleagues [Drs Melnick, Roy, & DeBourbon] (click here). You’ll see that the procedure is not perfect, but some of the women went from a very high distress level (translates into avoiding sex) to very low levels… (as in crazy fun sex).

      If your gynecologist or family practitioner wants training, please send them to this page. They will probably also want to see the research paper published by Dr Runels, Melnick, Roy, and DeBurbon.

      If you want to see someone who’s already doing the procedure, then…
      Here’s where to find the closest provider.

      As for the urinary leaking when you sneeze, you have a very high chance of complete relief.

      Hope you find healing. Please keep us posted about your progress so other will benefit.

  2. I also wanted to mention, that during, sex, I have fluid that gushes out. My husband claims that I am ejaculating. I’m not so sure.
    Thanks Again

    • Some who ejaculate are excreting urine, some fluid from the skene’s glands…ether way is a form of ejaculation associated with pleasure. If you and your husband are having fun and getting close…doesn’t really matter what a chemist would find if she analyzed the fluid. The things that matter most cannot be measured.

  3. I have a issue with having “O” I am 63, but I can not afford to get one because it cost way to much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So unless you have a lot of money you are left out not so different that is the way with all things medical. It is a shame that only the wealthy matter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Hello Nona,

      It does seem that way sometimes (that only the wealth matter). Money does seem to make health care easier, there’s no denying that. Of course, everyone matters, and everyone matters the same so let’s talk about your situation.

      Unfortunately, until we do enough research, insurance will not pay for the procedure. And, unfortunately, if physicians routinely offered procedures for less than it cost to do the procedure, then they could not keep the office open. The last research done showed that the average family practitioner pays so much for nurses and insurance billing and taxes that she does not break even every day until after the 21st patient. So, at 15 minutes per patient, the doctor would break even around 2pm. Of course, many people need more than 15 minutes time, so often the doctor has trouble breaking even before time to go home! For the first time in the history of the US, it’s be come difficult for a primary care physician (meaning there’s no expensive surgery to help pay the bills) to keep the doors open–so you have doctors quitting because they have to either lose money by going to work or else see so many people every day and so quickly that they don’t feel like they can take good care of them.

      Some find this hard to believe, but it’s a very real problem.

      As for the O-Shot (R) procedure, the cost of time and FDA materials used for the procedure mean that the doctor must charge the current fee or else risk losing money.

      On the other hand, the cost of an O-Shot (R) is less than a new set of tires for most cars and less than a new transmission or most extensive auto repair and your vagina is worth more than a transmission…even the poor can usually eventually round up money for tires and auto repair…so it’s not cheap but it’s within reach of most people.

      Also, many of our doctors do understand poverty.

      For example, Dr. Runels (who invented the shot) lived out of his car for almost a year during one part of his time in school and does still does some charity work. There are many other physicians who do the O-Shot (R) procedure who work at free clinics across the world in their free time. Most of this charity work, however is for the elderly suffering end-of-live issues and for those with severe life-threatening disease.

      We do currently have one research project going where you can be treated for free with the O-Shot (R) if you have Lichen Sclerosus (details by clicking here)

      You’ll notice that the budget for that project is $96,000– to treat only 10 women–so that gives you and idea about why doctors can’t really just do the O-Shot (R) for less than the $1,200-$1,500 price range. Treating a patient as a research person costs more, but even woman getting an O-Shot (R) not in the research will costs the doctor much in time and supplies.

      One option, if you want treatment would be to be sure to be on the mailing list so that when we do more research where you might be treated for free that you’ll know about it (click here).

      Hopefully, we can get enough research done soon that eventually all women can be treated as part of their insurance plan.
      So, don’t give up hope. There’s always a way on the way.

  4. I would love to be considered for this study. I have had LS for years and I am treatment resistant. I sit everynight with icepacks and suffer. I can not find any help anywhere. Please consider me.

  5. I found Dr. Runels through internet research…after my husband of almost 21 years, starting receiving testosterone shots and taking daily cialis…we re-discovered each other and began a very active sex life…in the years prior to this, sex was almost non-existent and we had grown apart, still loved each other but lived more as room-mates than lovers. Sex in my opinion is very important to a relationship as it bonds you as a couple…(one of many articles on this subject)
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-34774/Why-sex-good-you.html
    I was delighted in our renewed sex life, closeness, and renewed happiness, but there was a problem….
    He worked hard so I could reach orgasm, I could get there, but it took a long time and much patience on his part…it frustrated me…which I think contributed to my sometime inability to orgasm….the result was many times I faked it so he would not feel bad as he worked so hard and so wanted me to reach orgasm…
    I found articles on the O-shot reading about the Vampire lift and researching hormone therapy….
    I had the O-shot Thursday, I was a little “tender” Thursday night but we wanted to try out the new “toy”. I reached orgasm twice, one oral and one vaginal….last night most of the tenderness had dissipated, two oral orgasms in a very short time and one vaginal. We are elated….my clitoris is larger and more exposed and much more sensitive. We are so pleased, he wants to have the P-shot for men. Thank you Dr Runels!

  6. My girlfriend got the shot about 2 1/2 weeks ago for LS. Since then she’s not had any breakouts, but she has had the pre-breakout itching, interesting. How soon can she get another treatment or should she wait a period of time to allow the shot to work?

    • Would be no harm in doing the shot sooner, but likely the full benefit of the shot does not occur until around the 12 week. Most of the benefit, however, by the 8th week. So most likely, the would be no need to repeat until after 8 weeks (if she’s still having trouble).

      The procedure does seem to be additive. So, if she does not see complete healing, she may see more improvement after the second procedure.

      Keep us updated, If you can, see if your friend will post her progress so we can learn from what she see’s

  7. I read with great interest about the o shot in a UK magazine. I am 46 years old and have never had an orgasm during sexual intercourse, though I am able to through masturbation. I had surgery to remove a vaginal sceptum at 17 yrs old as I have bicornuate uterus- I really wish I hadnt sometimes as I worry this damaged nerve endings and contributed to this.
    2 questions- do you plan to offer this procedure in the UK and do you think it might benefit me?

  8. I got the shot exactly 8 weeks ago and still do not feel any difference. The doctor advised me that I would likely not reach my full potential until the 3 month mark but that I would likely start feeling a bit of a difference after 3 weeks. I’m beginning to feel discouraged. I pre-paid for a 2-shot package, but I am moving out of the country in 2 weeks and feel unsure if I should use up my 2nd shot or wait until the next time I’m in the country (which will likely be in a few months).

    I still feel absolutely no desire, no change in sensation, and my orgasms feel a little different but certainly not stronger…perhaps even a little weaker than usual. Any idea what could be going on?

    • First, be sure the person who treated you is listed here…(click here).

      If not, they are an imposter and I’m not sure you were treated appropriately. Does not matter who they are, if they are not listed on this website, we cannot vouch that they are doing the procedure appropriately.

      “2 Shot packages” are not the usual way of doing this…most are better after one shot…makes me wonder if you were treated appropriately. If not the doctor is not listed, please e-mail Dr Runels at this address and let him know so he can take appropriate measures to protect other women.

      On the other hand, the procedure is not perfect and if you saw no response, there are other considerations with hormones etc, and you should discuss next steps with the person you saw.

      Would you report back here to let us know if you saw a certified provider? Then we can go from there.

      • Yes I received the treatment from a certified doctor that is listed there. We did a series of hormone testing prior to the shot and it appeared all was well. I got the shot on 5/28 so it’s actually been over 9 weeks. I’m 26 and in good health, so feeling discouraged that I haven’t felt any difference. I have a follow up appointment in a few days, so we’ll see from there.

        • Hello,

          Thank you very much for sharing your experience. It’s a very courageous thing to do and hopefully we can all learn (physicians and women who may be suffering).

          I’m not your physician, and nothing substitutes for that. But, I do think I may have some general observations that may help.

          First, you stated that you have “absolutely no desire” and “no changes in orgasm.” The encouraging part is that you are able to have an orgasm. That can be impossible for up to 10% of women and for you to be able to have an orgasm without desire tells me that at least some of the important parts of your “orgasm system” are healthy.

          Second, for someone with “absolutely no desire” at the age of 26, I’d wonder about these things:

          a. If you’re on birth control pills, that can drop testosterone levels and cause lack of desire.
          b. Your testosterone level can be “normal” and be zero with the new guidelines promoted by some of the labs (I disagree with this range). To have a healthy sex drive, most need a free testosterone level in the upper range of normal for a woman. That is VERY VERY important–both that it’s the FREE testosterone and that it’s in the upper 25th percentile of normal.
          c. Make sure prolactin levels are normal. If this level is too high, it will kill your sex drive and can often cause very little else in the way of symptoms.
          d. Make sure you’re doctor is doing serum/blood levels, not saliva. I know that many physicians will argue with me about this one. But, I can make your saliva concentrations change by having you walk a mile without giving you water. The reason water content of saliva and urine changes is to keep blood osmolality the same. If you’re still not well, and your doctor did saliva testing, ask for blood testing.
          e. Never underestimate the value of good sex education/counseling. Though to enjoy amazing sex it’s very important to have a healthy vagina that’s optimized for sexual function (which the O-Shot does) and some therapists tend to forget that fact, it’s much more common for physicians to forget that the most important sex organ is the brain (thoughts and emotions) and that there are people (sex therapists and family counselors) who make a specialty of tuning that the brain/emotions for better sex.

          You’ll find a listing of some counselors (some who will work with you by phone) if you look for the tab at the top of this page.

          When I make spaghetti (my youngest son thinks I make the best), it’s not just the tomatoes, or the pasta, or the iron pot that makes it delicious–it’s all of it together. Do all of these things (the whole recipe) and I think you’ll find healing.

          You ARE fixable. Do not give up.

          I hope and pray that you find healing, deeper relationships, and more pleasure.

          Sincerely,

          Charles Runels, MD
          Inventor of the O-Shot (R) procedure

          P.S. You can see more about the Female Ogasm System in the following book (which you can read for free if you have Amazon prime)–”Activate the Female Orgasm System”. Pay special attention to the advice for loss of desire in the last chapter, it covers more about the recipe than what I’ve discussed. All profits for the book are donated to research (we are presently researching a way to use the O-Shot (R) to treat lichen sclerosus (see http://www.LichenSclerosusTreatment.com).

          • I appreciate your reply, Dr. I went back to the doctor and received a 2nd shot. I moved out of the country last week so I wanted to use up the 2nd shot that I had paid for. I am concerned with the list that you provided.
            -I’m not on birth control, so I know that isn’t an issue.
            -However, I am interested in retesting my testosterone levels. I know that I was in the “normal” range, but I definitely was not in the upper percentile. I believe I was in the lower range of normal.
            -I have never pursued finding my prolactin levels, so I will look into this immediately.
            -I have wondered if my issues were more psychological and I’ve seen sex therapists over the years to ensure I don’t have any other underlying issues. Of course, the low desire for so many years has gotten to my head, but generally I have a healthy view of sex and am in a healthy, monogamous relationship of 5+ years.

            Now that I am in another country, could you tell me the best kind of doctor to see? Should I see an endocrinologist?

  9. Interesting occurrence. As I’ve written previously, my girlfriend got the shot for LS, now about 1 month ago. Prior to the shot she would go through a ‘cycle’, first no itch, then itch, then dryness & itch, then full breakout, all about a week apart. Since the shot, it is nearly itch all the time, healing we thought? But… she just had a full blow breakout. We think it was hormonally generated. She no longer has full blown periods, but the symptoms are still there. For instance, she has the pre-period ‘wickedness’ as we call it, but we think instead of the actual period afterwards, she gets a full blown breakout. By now the breakout has receded and now the itching has returned. So there’s the update, interesting at best, but still hopeful. Maybe to early, but considering a second shot.

  10. I must comment Dr Runels on the cost. You state that the cost is between $1200 and $1500. The Dr’s listed for Illinois are charging $1800! That’s an even bigger investment! I am wondering if this is a way for greedy Dr’s to rip us off! Especially for a procedure that is still in clinical trials! What gives Dr??

    • Hello Theresa,

      I’m very glad for your honesty.

      There’s an old adage that says, “People want their lawyer to be rich and their doctor to be poor.”
      Not sure if that’s true or not, but there could be some truth in it.

      I noticed that later on this blog you reported that you had a great result, again…we are very grateful for your honesty about that as well.
      Please, as you tell people about the procedure, please consider the following and try not to be too hard on the doctors.

      The cost of living in Chicago is greater than other many other parts of the country. Look around the office the next time you go to the doctor: nurse, phone person, lab person, insurance person. Not counting the doctor, just the overhead of keeping an office open can be several hundred dollars per hour. Then add the cost of the materials used in the procedure, these doctors do not get rich doing this procedure.

      Even though we have research going, the process used has been around for over 10 years with over 11,000 research papers already published. So, we are not doing the research to prove it works…we know it’s working…we’re doing the research to prove it to the rest of the world that it’s working in the vaginal area…not working for every patient but working for a large percentage of women who could not get well any other way. Is that taking advantage of people or helping people? Is the cup 1/2 full?

      Most all doctors do much charity work that they are never paid for. But if a woman can pay, and the doctor can give her back the ability to have comfortable sexual relations or make her urinary incontinence go away without dangerous drugs or uncomfortable surgery, then that should at least be worth what it costs to get a new transmission for your car or to spend a week at a nice hotel.

      Odd that no one considers a clothing store greedy for charging $1,800 for a designer dress. But, if a doctor charges that much to take away someone’s pain…?”

      In the end, however, neither the physicians and nurses who do the O-Shot (R) procedure nor Dr. Runels can tell a physician in city with a high cost of living what it costs to run their office or what they should charge for a procedure that’s not covered at all by insurance.

      Hopefully, when we do prove to the world (including the insurance carriers) that this does work, it WILL be covered by insurance and cost much less. I know as the inventor of the procedure and having come up working his way through school, and still doing charity work, Dr. Runels is very sensitive to the cost. He put the first $20,000 into the research we’re doing to see if the O-Shot (R) method will help lichen sclerosus—hopefully, so that research will encourage insurance companies to pay (you can see more about that research at http://www.LichenSclerosusTreatment.com)

      Thank you again for your absolute honesty and we’re very very glad that you did have the shot and were honest and kind enough to report those results in a later post.

      Very best regards

  11. Please consider me for the research, I have been struggling for years with Lichen Sclerosis. I have tried to find specialists and been to doctors who were specialists in gynecology and dermatology but they are unfamiliar with the disease, I need help and I am willing to travel to get the help needed. If anyone knows of any good doctors I would love the information. I am tired and frustrated.

    • Dr. Goldstein, who is the principal investigator in our research project and was trained by Dr. Runels in the O-Shot (R) technology, is out of the country until August the 18th. If you filled out the form at http://www.LichenSclerosusTreatment.com someone should call you within a week of his return.

      If not, let us know. I hope you find healing.

  12. My doctor has recommended the O shot for treatment of urinary frequency. She is not listed as a provider on this forum but says she has done it many times. Should I be concerned??

    • The O-Shot (R) is protected by US patent & trademark law (granted to the inventor, Charles Runels, MD). If a doctor claims to do the “O-Shot” or even implies that he/she is doing something like the “O-Shot” (which is also misleading) and is not listed here (click here), then that doctor is actually breaking the law and subject to penalties including payment of part of earned income and prosecution for fraud.

      It’s trademarked for a reason: so patients can know that the physician understands the procedure and is willing to follow the guidelines.

      You may have an excellent doctor–but he/she either does not know it’s trademarked (unlikely), or has broken one of the agreements and has been removed from the website, or knows it’s trademarked and is using the name illegally (and possibly does not know what she/he doesn’t know).

      Here’s an example of what happened to someone who had a Vampire Facelift (R) by someone not on the website (also a trademarked procedure—click here).

      It does not matter where the office, or what the specialty, if the provider uses the name “O-Shot” and is not listed here…you should not use them for the procedure. This is not a maybe…it’s a NOT.

      Nothing guarantees a perfect outcome, but the listing here as a certified provider does assure a standard has been met for understanding and for using FDA approved materials. If the doctor is not listed here and is using the word, “O-Shot” all I can assure you of is that they are breaking US Patent & Trademark law and misleading you.

      Yes, I’d be concerned.

      It’s a very simple thing for a physician to be certified, here’s where the physicians apply (click here). If your doctor is using the name, he/she should either go there and apply or expect a call from attorneys very soon.

    • Hello Deborah,

      Sooo much suffering in the world. Sometimes those without pain forget those who hurt. And when someone shares their pain, it’s the greatest of gifts. You should receive a call from Dr Golstein’s office within a week of his return from abroad (the 18th of this month).

      Did you watch his video about Lichen Sclerosus, where Dr Runels (the inventor of the O-Shot) introduces him. If not, please watch it now (click here). I think it will give you legitimate hope.

      Please keep us posted, and do not give up, there is help coming.

  13. Well, I didn’t cancel, and I am very glad. I had it done Thursday, August 7th (which is also my birthday) and immediately my vagina felt tighter, and I have NO urine leaking with coughing, nor sneezing! Sensation is there, and my husband says that I feel like a 20 yr old! Not bad for the first 36 hrs! Will keep you all updated. I am hoping that what I am feeling just gets better and I will be a very happy woman!

    • I’m very very happy for you. And even more, very grateful for your courage to both share and to be honest about your fears and your success. There is no perfect procedure; and we will all learn from those who do well and from those who do not benefit.

      Please keep us posted.

  14. So, it’s been a little over 2 weeks since my shot. The great sensations that I felt the first week have faded, bummer. I’m wondering if because I had such great sensations the first week, if that will come back? I really hope that the wonderful way that I felt will come back, and get stronger?
    Thanks

    • The first effects are from the fluid, the long term effects from new tissue growth do not even START to work until 3 weeks. Full effect is 12 weeks…way to early to give up…it’s just now time to start watching.

      The shot would almost be worth it for the first week, if you’re one of the ones who gets the very sexual response from the initial injection. But, the long term effects come from activation of pleuripotent stem cells. In the orthopedic applications, full effect can take as long as a year! But, with the vagina, we recommend re-injection at 8 weeks if not fully to the desired level of response/pleasure.

  15. I got the O-shot 4 months ago for dyspareunia, painful intercourse. While it greatly reduced the pain, the injection put into my clitoris affected my pleasure center so that what used to be right at the surface and accessible, now seems buried and elusive, hard to find. The doctor who gave me the shot (on your provider list) said she put it right in the center of the clitoris. All that I’ve read says it is put “near” or “at the base of” the clitoris. Before the shot, I never had arousal/orgasmic problems but now I do. It’s like the thing has moved. Can this be corrected? I’m afraid I traded one problem for another.

    • It’s a rare thing to have the clitoris be smaller when given growth factors. Never even heard of that happening, so glad for the feed back. If your clitoris seems smaller, after receiving an injection that causes growth, I’d worry about other changes. Did you change your hormones? Something else change with relationships? Now that the pain is much improved, did something else change with the interaction?

      I’d recommend using a vaginal testosterone cream applied directly to the clitoris to encourage growth.

      The good news, that your pain is “greatly reduced” means that you’re responding to the injection. Go back to the person who gave you the shot and talk it over.

      The correct placement is into the clitoris. Just like men get an injection directly into the penis when they get tri-mix injections to cause and erection. So, your provider did the procedure properly if injected directly into the clitoris.

      Bottom line–if something doesn’t match –like a plant getting smaller when fertilized, or tissue becoming smaller when growth factors applied, then there’s a missing piece of information somewhere. Though some people react the opposite of expected sometimes (like those for whom sleeping medicine makes them hyper), it’s much more likely that a little careful thought with you and your physician and perhaps some testosterone cream applied to your clitoris will bring things to where you continue to have no pain and also great response from your clitoris…Please keep us updated.

      • I’m relieved to learn that my doctor put the injection in the correct place. Thank you. Nothing has changed (hormones, relationship) but I appreciate your suggestions and will give it some thought, and look into the cream.
        My pain level went from about an 8 to a 2, which is fantastic. Would a second shot take it away completely? If I went this route, should I also get a second clitoral injection?

        • We do usually see a cumulative effect, with continued improvement after the second or third shot. It seems, however, that things continue to improve for 12 weeks with much of the effects happening by the 8th week. So, most should wait 6-8 weeks before deciding to get a second shot.

          Since it’s been 4 months, having a second shot to try and get the pain to go all the way to zero, would be worth the doing and likely help.

          Before getting a second shot into the clitoris, I’d consider getting a testosterone cream to apply directly to the clitoris and use that for the next 8 weeks. Talk it over with the physician who took care of you. Nothing compares with an actual exam and talking in person–that’s where the final and most correct decision will be made.

          Thank you again for sharing your experience. Hopefully we will all continue to learn from each other. Soooo, sad that men have over 20 drugs approved by the FDA to help with sex, and women have nothing. Anyone who participates with this procedure truly is helping lead a revolution that helps force the conversations to happen as well as to explore new therapies that work.

          The original research done by the inventor of the procedure (Dr Runels) and several leaders in the group (click) shows that the procedure works. But, there’s still much research to be done to best learn how to use the method for maximal effectiveness and how to know who will benefit most.

          For example, we have some women who seem to have FEWER outbreaks of vaginal herpes after the O-Shot (R) procedure. This seems logical because PRP enhances the immune system and would keep the virus beaten down. But, the research has not been done (yet) and until it’s done, and until insurance starts to pay for the procedure, it’s difficult to convince the 20,000 gynecologists in the USA to adopt the procedure. Most gynecologists are very hard working people who do care much for women…it’s just how medicine is…most doctors are NOT leaders, they wait in fear of the-powers-that-be until everyone is doing something and insurance pays for it. That usually takes about 20 years: 10 for all the research to accumulate and another 10 for everyone to adopt.

          For example the first heart cath was done in the 1940′s, not commonly done until the 1970′s. More intelligent hormone replacement for women (actually measuring levels of estrogen and testosterone the way we do thyroid), first done in the 1990′s, still not fully adopted (for example a practice bulletin in 2011 in Obstetrics and Gynecology recommended testosterone for female sexual dysfunction for short term but discouraged measuring blood levels?!?)

          So, at this point, YOU are a pioneer and when we are all old and this is commonly done (which it will be) we can all say that we helped bring this method into medicine.

          Thank you very very much.

          Keep us posted.

          Respectfully,

          P.S. Important to remember that hormones also work by causing cell growth (like the O-Shot), so if you start using a testosterone cream applied to the clitoris, give your body 8 weeks to respond before you evaluate the effectiveness and plan next steps. The good news is that with patience and the proper strategy, sexual problems ARE very fixable for almost everyone. Don’t forget the power of a good sex educator too (most of us don’t know what we don’t know,,,and there’s lots to know about sex and the body and mind response of it all).

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